Interview with "Mandrake magazine" issue #1, 2000 Who says the Dutch black metal underground doesn't have its treasures? Behold the Sons of a New Dawn: Cirith Gorgor. Their devastating debut album "Onwards to the spectral defile" has been released by Osmose about half a year ago, but since then guitarist Asmoday has left the band. I had the pleasure of having a chat with remaining guitarist Astaroth Daemonum with whom I have had the honour of sharing the stage a couple of times... He enlightens us with Cirith Gorgor's present and future plans, as well as his view on 'our scene', the annexation of Limburg to Belgium, and much more... Please give an introduction to Cirith Gorgor (and its members) and tell about the band history Well, Cirith Gorgor was raised at the end of 1993 by Asmoday and me. About half a year later Levithmong joined in on drums, and soon Lord Mystic became Cirith's bass player. At that moment we mainly did covers of Mayhem, Darkthrone, Slayer, etc and we also wrote the first Cirith songs (of which one made it to the debut album: Darkness returns). In 1995 we decided to kick out our former vocalist and after some auditions we recruited Varou Nimroth to join us. We continued working on song material and in November 1997 we finally recorded our demo tape called "Mystic legends...". They were sold out quickly, and sometime in 1998 Osmose Productions contacted us, which resulted in the recordings of our debut album "Onwards to the spectral defile" in November 1998. After the recording sessions guitarist Asmoday decided to leave the band, and we, for the second time, had to do some auditions. We decided to recruit Marchosias, and this works out really good. At the moment, only Marchosias is involved in a side-project as a drummer (not worth mentioning though). Astaroth Daemonum is your pseudonym - why? Since the very beginning of Cirith Gorgor we collectively had the desire to use pseudonyms. At the time I did read alot, including parts of the Goëtia. I'll try to explain why I chose Astaroth back then as good as I can, as we are talking about 4 or 5 years back... You see, Astaroth is a demon looking quite human on most levels (he appeareth in the form of a hurtful angel, with a human face) but inside he is a mighty Duke, strong and proud. Back then I had the feeling that most true black metal people could be more or less compared to this demon, they have a human side but also a strong and proud shadow side of which they realise that it shouldn't be ignored (and this flame still burns withing me and my brothers)... and furthermore there always had been a longing for living in another time, or even in another world. These two factors I saw and still see personified in the character of Astaroth, which is the reason for picking this name. There was one problem though, I found out that there were more people naming themselves after the twenty-ninth spirit. And it really annoys me to see things like that in the black metal scene, you know, all those Frost's and Grimm's... But I did want to continue with this pseudonym, so I decided to add Daemonum to it, which is (if I'm not mistaken) an old Dutch word for demons. Astaroth, according to the Goëtia, was in command over a vast amount of demons. This, plus the fact that I'm Dutch inevitibly led to Daemonum... Why did you take Cirith Gorgor for a band name? Are the works of Tolkien an important source of inspiration to your work? The first two years of our existence we called ourselves Dark Sorceress, but we weren't very satisfied with this name. So we decided to change it in 1994-1995. Because all individuals in Cirith Gorgor had own interests and different themes of inspiration, it wasn't very easy to come up with a name that had a meaning for all of us. But if there is one thing we collectively shared, it definitely was our respect for Tolkien's work. At the time, two or three members were busy reading the Lord of the rings, and when I came up with the idea to use Cirith Gorgor, everyone agreed. As mentioned before, all members are individuals with different interest and sources of inspiration, but we collectively wander the spectral defile: Cirith Gorgor! The works of Tolkien are one of the important sources in our lyrics indeed. You have a record deal with Osmose now - how was this achieved? Are you satisfied with what Osmose has done for you so far? After recording "Mystic legends..." we sent some copies to a couple of record labels, of which one was Osmose. After a while Hervé contacted us, letting us know that our demo was a killer, and that he wanted us to do an album on Osmose productions. That's it really... Until now we are satisfied with the situation, there are things that could have been better ... but we have to keep in mine that we are a debut band on Osmose, we have to prove ourselves a bit I guess. In general we sure as hell shouldn't complain! We have an album out on a mighty label, and it's available in large parts of the world. And what is really important, we had total artistic freedom concerning the recordings, the photo-sessions, and so on. Before you were signed - what exactly did you expect from a record label? What are the things that have turned out differently from your expectations? Had you expected that you had to call yourself to magazines in e.g. Rumania in order to do interviews? Not much really. I mean, we weren't at all familiar with the way these things work, it's more like a learning process for us. One thing that did surprise me a bit was the fact that everything went so easy ... concerning some (financial) matters we just had to contact Osmose and everything was settled. About this calling to magazines, most bands on Osmose have to do it this way. It makes perfect sense to me; it would be fucking expensive for a magazine to call to, for example, twenty foreign bands (each edition) and do an one-hour interview with each band. And Osmose pays our telephone bills, so both parties are satisfied. I've heard some interresting stories on how the recording of "Onwards to..." took place. Could you tell some more about it (when, but especially where and how!)? Are you still satisfied with the result? If I'm not mistaken Hervé of Osmose made use of some divine intervention in the mix, is that correct, and what were your feelings to that? (I mean: it's your music, so you probably know best what it should sound like...) What is the main thing you would like to do differently when recording your second album? Did you really? Well, the album was recorded during four weekends in November and December 1998. We used the same producer as we did for the demo, namely Erwin Hermsen (guitarist of Mangled). He just sort of rebuilt his studio in our rehearsal place, which is a great way to work. We recorded from around nine o'clock in the morning 'till seven o'clock in the evening, and after that we stayed for the night, so we could drink as much as we wanted. How we recorded the album? Drunk as hell!! No seriously, the first weekend we recorded the drums and some guitars, the second weekend we did one rhythm guitar and the bass guitar, the third weekend we did the second rhythm guitar and most of the vocals, and the final weekend we did the guitar solos, the remaining vocals and some effects. We are genrally satisfied with the results, but our second album must and will be much better! The sound has to be thicker and also more clear the next time. Osmose took care of the executive production, they did the mastering. I believe that's standard on Osmose and besides that, the sound is rarely different from the DAT-tapes we sent to them. As you probably know, mastering is only polishing some rough edges and frequencies, and we gave some instructions to Osmose on what had to be done. For the next album we'll take more time to get everything exactly how we want it, the sound will be more well-considered. Besides that, Cirith Gorgor has grown and as a result of this our new songs are ('till now) definitely better in all ways than the songs on our debut album (at least in my opinion). Why did you re-record 3 out of the 4 demo-tracks for your debut? Don't you think a demo should have something exclusive? When we released the first edition of "Mystic legends..." it was sold out very quickly. So we printed one hundred demos more, which were sold out soon as well. Then, when we started thinking about the debut album we thought it would be a waste not to do these three songs again, as they fit in the whole musical concept of "Onwards to...". Furthermore, we wanted more people (especially abroad) to hear those songs, because we sold only 350 demos of which most were sold in the Netherlands I think the demo didn't lose its exclusivity, there's still the intro and the song "Perishing nights" on the demo, and the versions of the three other songs are different from the album. The lyrics on the opening track on your debut album "Onwards to..." might just be slightly shocking for our islamic fellow-human-beings: "I will have no mercy for this Muslim bane. In my darkest fantasies they will die in pain!" What is the whole idea behind this song? Do you have something against Muslims or foreigners in general? As Nimroth wrote the lyrics for this one, I can't go too deeply into it because that's his domain. Let me assure you right away that we aren't racists/fascists or something, black metal isn't about politics! The thing is that most black metal bands, concerning their hate against organised religion, only emphasise Christianity. And in our opinion we need the Islam even less that Christianity in Europe. Cirith Gorgor is against any form of organised religion, and Nimroth probably wanted to emphasise this eastern religion which seems to get more powerful even in our country. It would be rather fun if we could go back in time a couple of centuries concerning this matter, when christians and muslims still fought each other perceiving the other party as being devils, ha! But we do have to keep in mind that we are talking about religion and its aspects here, since it would be hypocrisy to curse the day we got in contact with the Middle-East. The eastern sciences back then were much more advanced than the European, and we surely did benefit from their knowledge. One could go on about this matter for ages, the issue here is to look at the whole thing a bit more critically than most people do. Asmoday has left the band since the release of your debut album - Why was that? Did his departure go in a friendly way? Who has taken his place (any previous bands etc) and how did the auditions go (was it hard to find a suitable replacement)? Asmoday began to show less motivation and interest in Cirith Gorgor with each rehearsal session, so it seemed. It came to a point where I got really annoyed and confronted him with his lack of motivation. I asked him if he could reassure me that he, from then on, would be able to be at every rehearsal session again. He couldn't and even said that it would only get worse. So we told him he'd better quit. So he quit... It was no personal matter, he just wanted more time for his study and his girlfriend. There are no hard feelings, although I can't understand the whole thing as he has been a band member for about six years. Now we finally had the ability to record an album and then just after it has been released he quits... Anyway, we started to do some auditions and after a couple we decided we had to choose between two guitarists. We took our time to think it over and eventually chose the first one, namely Marchosias. He lives not too far from our rehearsal place and he used to play in a death metal band called Forlorn. Asmoday was emphetically involved in composing the songs for Cirith Gorgor (if I'm not mistaken). Has his departure led to any problems in this field? Asmoday and I composed half of the material each (both on the demo and the album). At the end of 1998 we started to work on new songs, though his contributions were minimal. So I wrote two new songs almost full on my own, and another new song has been almost totally composed by Marchosias. I dare say that the song writing goes even faster and is more satisfying than it has been with Asmoday still being in the band. What is your current view on your music - are you developing in a particular direction or are you just 'perfecting' your style? To what extent do your think you have a style of your own? The latter I guess... our new songs are very much in the vein of the newer songs on "Onwards to..." (Wandering Cirith Gorgor, Sons of the new dawn, The declaration of our neverending war). Maybe more well-considered and a bit more technical, but still fast yet melodic black metal. Regarding the fact that our music comes from ourselves and that while composing we don't think in terms of style, one could say that Cirith Gorgor has an own, unique style. On the other hand we are definitely inspired by the music-style we love most, and therefore we are kind of stuck to playing black metal until the eternity opens! So there are two ways of looking at it, but I really don't care which view one prefers. We just play the music that satisfies us most. Tell me about your legendary first gig in de Baroeg. What has been your most memorable gig so far? Why? Let me tell you something about that first gig of ours: it sucked! We played at the Helluva Festival somewhere around April 1997. We had about all the technical problems you could possibly imagine, it sucked but it was a learning experience Our most memorable gig? I don't know really, we had some good gigs and some not so good gigs. But to name some, we did a gig once with Ancient and Behemoth which was great, and also our two gigs in the Batcave (Tilburg) have been quite satisfying. Osmose regularly organises huge tours - is there a chance that you can open up for a 'big' band on a tour in the not too distant future? Yeah, we've had some options already. The thing is that it's not easy for us to do a long tour, since four out of five members study and therefore lead quite time-demanding lives. So we have to wait 'till the right conditions come up... At the moment we are busy working out things concerning a package thing together with Severe Torture and Ourburst, and furthermore I heard some talk about a five-day tour with an American band. As a famous Osmose band - why is it that you still have to borrow equipment from a simple demo band to play live...? Well, we don't! i think we have a decent backline at the moment... but you're right, in the past we always had problems with guitar amplifiers. You see, Asmoday and I were (and still are) both lazy students with virtually no money, so we possessed amplifiers powerful enough to rehearse with, but not good enough to play live with. When Marchosias entered Cirith Gorgor, he brought with him a decent amplifier, and as I've been working the whole summer-holidays I finally bought a decent one as well. How do you think the Dutch black metal scene is developing? Do you think there is a pioneer's role put aside for you in this development? Any upcoming you would like to recommend? The Dutch black metal scene is alright, but it isn't very strong. There are only a few bands worth mentioning, and unfortunately there are a lot of crappy bands around. The death metal scene is a lot stronger in the Netherlands. I never really thought about our role in the whole circus, but I think it's fair to say that Cirith Gorgor is one of the most well-known Dutch black metal bands at this moment. This puts us in a position where we can promote other worthy bands, but I don't know if this has led to something already... I appreciate Dutch bands like Iscariot, Ordo Draconis, Tartaros, Warlust, and others. I recently received some flyers from a label (whose name we shall not mention here) stating that real Dutch black metal wasn't made by poser bands like Cirith Gorgor - what do you think of such an action? What do you think is the reason for them to do it? Does it bother you? What do you think is the right way to react to it? Do you receive any hate mail? Apparently real Dutch black metal is made by bands unable to handle their instruments in a decent way, wrapped up in a worthless production... Yeah, I indeed saw a flyer stating that Cirith Gorgor and Ordo Draconis are trendies... fuck off! I remember an interview I did with a certain guy in our demo period and the whole bunch seemed to like "Mystic Legends..." And now that we have an album out on Osmose Productions (musically and production-wise not very different from the demo) we suddenly became trendies! A couple of weeks ago though, our vocalist confronted one of the involved people (member of a band) who claimed that they all had nothing against Cirith Gorgor except for one guy. Of course he was responsible for the flyer and did it without the awareness of the band (which was promoted by the flyer). In my opionion they can't possibly have a valid reason for doing this, since they don't know a fucking thing about who we are and what we believe in. The amusing part is that WE on the other hand know quite a lot about the guy from the label... Does it bother me? Well, what bothers me is that there are stupid people wandering about in the black metal scene, but there are ignorant people everywhere I guess ... on the other hand, this person apparently is so stupid that he fails to see that he just spreads our name with this action; negative publicity is publicity as well! I trust that people who see this flyer can decide for themselves whether Cirith Gorgor is trendy or not, and if they can't they don't matter anyway. So i can conclude that the best way to react is to not react at all, and to have a good laugh about it (which we certainly had). No, we never had any hate mail. What was the idea behind this weapon-shield of Limburg on your demo inlay? Do you agree that the part of the Netherlands beneath the Meuse should be given to Belgium? This weapon-shield is pronted only on the inlay of the second edition. The main reason for this was to create yet another difference from the first edition's inlay. Furthermore most band-members are from Limburg, so we liked the idea of using something emphasising we are from that area. No, I don't agree. Do you? What are your plans for the future? Can you already tell anything about a new record? (When will it be recorded? Title? Tracks?) To continue the writing process, do lots of gigs and record our second album once, wandering Cirith Gorgor eternally... We'll just have to wait and see if the co-operation with Osmose continues, but we'll make sure that there will be a second attack somehow. At the moment we have four songs almost ready, namely "A twilight serenade", "Bellum Germanicum", "Conquering the shadowworld", and "Unveiling the essence". OK... You may close off the interview now and add all the answers to the questions I forgot! Right. Well, I believe that everything had been said for now. Thank you Rahab for a very interesting interview, and good luck with your 'zine and Ordo Draconis! Rahab